Let’s-a go! To kick off our week-long Super MAR10 event and a septet of SEVEN articles celebrating the world’s most iconic video game character, we are proud to present and preserve an interview that originally appeared in NES Pro Magazine, which has now been discontinued. The interview was originally conducted by myself and the article was written by David Giltinan (@DaGiltyMan) featuring Steven Applebaum and Ryan Hoss of smbmovie.com (@smbmovie). I’m excited for you to meet these two superfans and hear their intriguing perspective! Super Mario Bros. The Movie is a point of contention and even a meme for many Mario fans, but you may come to understand it and its background a bit better from the point of view of preservationists that have worked hard to restore much of the film’s integrity and even deleted content.
Enjoy and don’t forget to come back tomorrow for more of our MAR10 event!
-Red
When talking about movies based on video game franchises, one of the earliest examples people who grew up with the NES will point out is Super Mario Bros. The Movie. The film, starring Bob Hoskins and John Leguizamo, was a curious release for many longtime Nintendo fans. In time, it has become a de facto example of how Hollywood simply didn’t “get” what made us love these video games.
Speaking personally, I saw it in theaters (thanks, dad) and recall being excited, thinking it would be a step above the Super Mario Bros. Super Show and Captain Lou Albano’s live-action portrayal of our favorite plumber. I left the theater that night feeling confused and bewildered at what I saw, particularly how Yoshi or Dennis Hopper as King Koopa were portrayed. It was one of the first moments in my life where my expectations were high and dashed rather quickly. Nowadays, I have a strange sort of nostalgia for the film, simply for existing and knowing the behind-the-scenes stories of what happened on set.
We had the pleasure of speaking with two prominent experts on the film, Steven Applebaum and Ryan Hoss of smbmovie.com (Editor-in-Chief / Public Relations and Site Master / Webmaster, respectively). Both have been involved with restoring lost footage as well as maintaining information about Super Mario Bros., such as its merchandising, marketing, scripting, shooting, and reputation.
To provide a backdrop, Steven was introduced to the Mario franchise through Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario World, while Ryan had his personal experience through watching the aforementioned Super Mario Bros. Super Show. To quote Steven, “I already associated Mario with parallel dimensions and dinosaurs even before seeing the movie!” Considering that, I suppose Hollywood wasn’t too far off on a surface level! Although now it makes me curious what Wart would have looked like in a potential sequel.
So why devote time to a movie that is mostly considered a “cash grab” of a popular video game property? Or is it simply misunderstood? Ryan chimes in.
“In a nutshell, yes. The Super Mario Bros. movie is often misunderstood in so many ways. Some of that comes from the film itself, but a large part also comes from the time it was made and how it was made.”
Steven embellishes this by adding, “People often assume it was a quick cash grab, or that it was a hastily rewritten unrelated project, when actually everyone from the producers to the directors to the writers and even most of the production crew immersed themselves in the games.”
Considering the duo’s contact with the movie’s screenwriters Dick Clement and Ian la Frenais, he also adds that “the directors / writers developed the idea that the games were caricatured Eastern retellings of Western events.” That would certainly explain how the direction of the film took on a more esoteric direction, rather than throwing in some mushrooms and turtle monsters for our red and green heroes and calling it a day. There was an attempt made, there’s no denying that.
Adding to this, Steven shares his first impressions of the film, and how they changed over time. He states, “I actually didn’t (originally) love it! I was always more of a purist. It wasn’t until I became interested in and studied myth and folklore that I started to appreciate it more.”
Ryan took on a more surface level analysis, taking it upon himself to get in the minds of the filmmakers through his experience with the games the movie was based on. “I saw it as a kid on VHS, but even then I knew it couldn’t have been what the world at large expected a live-action Super Mario Bros. movie to be. I was instantly fascinated and started playing the games again, trying to pick up any sort of connections I could between the film and the games.”
Going beyond what your general audience member would have seen, there is certainly some truth to be found through Steven’s findings. At the same time, Ryan’s approach is completely understandable, especially when trying to make sense of the Goombas’ design as compared to the source material.
Being a cult classic approaching its 30th anniversary, it’s honestly an achievement unto itself that Super Mario Bros. is still remembered (revered and otherwise) today. Ryan explains this phenomenon rather well.
“It’s one of those films that’s a real kitchen sink in terms of inspiration and execution. It’s the first live-action movie based off a video game, isn’t a straight adaptation, was directed by a duo who have another cult icon on their resume with Max Headroom, used extensive prosthetics, animatronics, and cutting edge CGI in its time, had a very eclectic, diverse, and storied cast, and had a very tumultuous journey from film to screen.”
Anyone who is familiar with Max Headroom will instinctively be able to connect the dots, especially if you compare (design-wise) King Koopa to the titular character. Add in the distinct look of the special effects and overall vibe between the two films, and it all starts to make a lot more sense how we got the movie that we did.
Steven adds, “Unlike most one-hit-wonder cult films, Super Mario Bros. is attached to an ongoing franchise. The games will always have new fans, and with fans becoming parents, there’s the opportunity to introduce it to the next generation. And we’ve seen that! We’ve held many screenings, and there’s always families!” So don’t be surprised if your niece or nephew suddenly mentions wanting moon boots after watching the Bertha scene! It had that effect on me as a child, at least.
In an effort to preserve the movie and have it available in the best quality possible, the smbmovie.com duo have taken it upon themselves to put together a Blu-ray release that’s complete and with all the bells and whistles one would hope in a modern upscale. Steven explains what they were working with, as well as where he would have liked to improve the film if possible.
“In addition to poor video quality, the standard DVD is non-anamorphic and has a terrible soundtrack. That alone gave the film an undeserved reputation that it was dark, grimy, and lacked color. Our new 35mm transfer for Blu-ray has become the definitive version. However, I still feel that the pacing and act structure can be fatiguing. We do have production notes for an unproduced Daisy-centric edit that we’d love to develop for a new release!”
Imagine, a Daisy-centric version of Super Mario Bros. The Movie! It just goes to show that movie-making magic can even result in a totally different film within an existing one (think Back to the Future Part II). Perhaps there’s more to mine than improved music quality.
As for Ryan, he took a more sentimental approach when asked about the project and work behind it.
“My appreciation for the film has only deepened over the years. Tracking down and archiving all the material we’ve been able to find has enabled us to have a more informed view of what the filmmakers were trying to achieve. The biggest surprise, though, has been meeting and interacting with the people who worked on the film. The consensus we’ve gotten from the cast and crew we’ve spoken with is that this film was one of the most memorable ones in their career.”
Ryan spoke more about the archival efforts of the website.
“Our website’s goal has always been to help people understand the film a little better. As an archive, it’s been pretty rewarding to see other creators use it as the resource it is to produce more informed content. The most surprising thing you could tell if someone familiar with the games has just seen the film without diving into the production is that the film was originally going to be more of a fantasy-based replication of the games and was completely scrapped in favor of what was released.”
When asked about any possible legal issues with maintaining an archive on a licensed property like this, Steven treated us to some pretty cool news for Super Mario Bros. fans.
“The film’s rights are in a sort of limbo. Both Disney and Nintendo don’t hold total rights. We’ve been working with Pathé, the European rightsholder, and they have a licensed artbook in development!”
Will we see that artbook in time for the 30th anniversary? One would hope!
Of course, we had to ask about the duo’s thoughts on the upcoming Illumination animated movie. Ryan shared his personal hopes.
“I hope there’s real heart and passion behind it. With that movie being undoubtedly closer in look and tone to the games, I think it will also bring an incredible amount of scrutiny from filmgoers wanting *their* Mario to be represented.”
Steven added, “I feel it’s good that we will potentially be getting more of a straight adaptation. Having both something expected and something more subversive elevates the other. You better understand and appreciate both.”
Indeed! With the new The Super Mario Bros. Movie releasing this year as well as potential releases celebrating the 30th anniversary of the live-action movie, 2023 is looking like a very special time for Mario cinephiles.
Thanks to Steven and Ryan for taking the time to speak with us. You can follow all of their work at smbmovie.com.
David Giltinan has worked as a Content Producer within the gaming industry for over a decade. Starting with a blog site and YouTube channel, he went on to help create and run RETRO Magazine, and host/produce the retro gaming podcast ARGcast (Another Retro Gaming Podcast). Along with being Editor-in-Chief of NES Pro Magazine, David is also a working Voiceover Artist and Narrative Designer. Uniting people through our passions and personal stories is his goal.
